Nirmala Sitharaman<\/a> sat down on Friday for an exhaustive interview with Network18 Group Editor-in-Chief Rahul Joshi. While explaining the intricacies of the Narendra Modi government\u2019s bold reform move, she also panned the opposition for chiming in along with some international voices disparaging India, even as she touched upon accomplished and awaited policy decisions, as well as what else citizens can look forward to in the days to come.<\/span><\/p>\nFull text:<\/p>\n
Nirmalaji<\/span>, thank you so much for giving us this exclusive interview, one of your first to any media outlet after the monumental, historic decision of GST rationalisation. In many ways, it\u2019s GST 2, the second coming. There\u2019s been a lot of talk in the <\/span>past<\/span>. Let me begin with a broader question. The Prime Minister\u2019s vision is to make life easy for the common man, reduce the burden on the common man. You did it in your Budget last time by cutting the income tax rate, bonanza for the middle class. What was the vision behind this? What did the Prime Minister tell you? How did it come about?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nThank you very much for giving me this opportunity to interact soon after this major reform measure has been approved by the (GST) Council. And I thank everyone of the ministers who attended the meeting, the states, the finance ministers, who supported it. Otherwise, it wouldn\u2019t have seen the light of the day. <\/span><\/p>\nWell, the Prime Minister did announce it from the Red Fort on Independence Day. But even about eight months ago, he called me once and had a long talk about it, how GST can be revamped, and only from one point of view. He said, \u201cLook, both from the point of view of the process and also for the common man, the tax rates, is there a way in which we can make the tax rates simpler?” So, I had agreed that I would go into it and come back to him. Then, around the Budget, when we were talking about many tax-related issues, he reminded me about the work which has got to be done. I assured him again that time that the work is progressing and I will come back to him. So sometime after the Budget Session was over in the Parliament, I said I\u2019m somewhere close to giving him a proposal, on which he can guide me further and so on. And then later, much later, because you know the developments of May-April when Operation <\/span>Sindoor<\/span> had happened, and after April, priorities were on very many different grounds. And when the next opportunity came, I went and gave him a detailed description. He said, \u201cI just want, as I said at the first meeting\u2026simplified way of doing business. I don\u2019t want small businesses sitting at the computer, getting their auditor to do it. And also, the way we did in the Budget, respecting the middle class, respecting the taxpayer, respecting people who are really the ones out of their salaries giving the tax. We need to do something for the day-to-day indirect tax, which falls on every Indian citizen in some way or the other.” So, this tax is something which touches the lives of every citizen. And, therefore, we need to be a lot more sensitive. <\/span><\/p>\nSo, I went back with this comment. Redid it, sharp-focused it, and that\u2019s how this proposal came. And for the first time in GST history, in the Council\u2019s history, the Centre has come up with a proposal. Till now, it used to be the group of ministers (<\/span>GoM<\/span>), which consisted only of state ministers; never has the Centre been a part of any <\/span>GoM<\/span>. This is the first time\u2026in the case of the compensation cess, where the MoS, Finance, Central Government, was the chair to decide how to handle the closure of the compensation cess, and a comprehensive proposal as regards GST being given by the central government. So, it\u2019s unique in many, many ways. Every rule of the House, of the Council had to be looked at afresh, even to put the proposal. So, I\u2019m glad it went through the whole grind, didn\u2019t ignore any rule, or expectation, or the law of the GST. And it has gone through.<\/span><\/p>\nAnd taking everyone along, unanimously.<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nThat\u2019s right.<\/span><\/p>\nAt the heart of this is obviously the common man. In fact, <\/span>Moneycontrol<\/span> had put out a tweet saying it also impacts the health of every citizen in India. To which the Prime Minister in fact said that it is also to do with <\/span>Swasth<\/span> Bharat. So, what was the driving motivation behind this bill?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nSee, I had to do a dredging kind of an exercise. Every item, which comes under the GST, goods or services, had to be looked at. Not just by their codes, not just by their names, but to regroup them from the point of view of daily-use items, which is consumed by citizens, middle class, the poor in particular. And then you looked at those which are going to hit the farmers, those which are going to hit the middle class and so on. Because, eventually, daily use items or items which are necessary for this transition of India from an emerging developing economy to a Viksit Bharat cannot be on the back of just the approach of we need more bridges, roads, some contracts for works and so on, but also the aspirations of the growing families will have to be met too. So, we had to regroup the goods and services in such a way, okay, this is essential for the families, poor, middle-class families. Of course, the rich will come in. So, what do we do as a treatment? <\/span><\/p>\nBut even as we were talking about this, we were talking about the classification of goods and services. I, without any hesitation, will bring that example of the popcorn. Why am I saying \u201chesitation”? Because I was pilloried on it. But that tells you the problem of classification. We brought in a system, no doubt, which was an improvement over the pre-GST era, where every state defined its own and had its own rate and so on. So, GST in 2017 was an improvement over what was earlier, but it still required some more simplification. And that\u2019s why this exercise. And in the case of the popcorn, it led to a lot of litigation, courts coming up with different kind of voices, and states losing revenue. Because of the classification being different, people chose to have the higher-taxed sugary chocolatey popcorn shown in as a salted popcorn, because that has only very little tax on it.<\/span><\/p>\nSo, this arbitrage, because of classification, had to be overcome. So even as I\u2019m grouping for families<\/span>\u2014their day-to-day items\u2014this thought of what problems classification was causing also had to be addressed.<\/span><\/p>\nFor me, it was a fascinating exercise. It was rigorous. It took a lot of my time\u2014time which would have gone in for something else\u2014but I think this was absolutely a rewarding exercise. Because you brought in that temperament, which is so important, that citizen looks at these things in one particular way. Revenue is not the consideration. So that helped us.<\/span><\/p>\nSo, you\u2019ve done two monumental things. You\u2019ve put more money into the hands of the consumer. For the middle classes, there was the income tax cut. And now rationalisation of GST. So, will it now finally move the needle on consumption?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nHundred per cent. Because there\u2019s more money given already, through the income tax cut, the rates are coming down. So the citizen now has a choice to meet his aspirations and his expectations. He cannot say, \u201cLook, I have the money because the income tax is reduced, but these items are beyond my affordability.” Now, everything has come down. I\u2019ll give you this number which is important. Ninety-nine per cent of all the goods and services, which are touched by GST, are now either in zero or in five or 18. There\u2019s nothing beyond. So, that 1% is what makes for the demerit goods, which popular parlance says sin goods. So, that is the extent to which we have cleansed the system of anomalies, doubts, duplications and any interpretative issues.<\/span><\/p>\nSo this will also lead to higher investment. It will fire up investments as well.<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nObviously, with consumption going up, there\u2019s a potential for capacities to grow, investments to grow.<\/span><\/p>\nNow the combined tax revenue impact of this\u2026earlier your income tax cuts, and this is about 1.2 lakh crore. Do you think that there will be a certain revenue buoyancy as well in the coming years to make up for this?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nEvery economic theory that one studies says that.<\/span><\/p>\nYeah. Have you seen that in the past?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nWell, at least the moment the income tax reduction happened, you heard people very clearly coming out and saying\u2026I\u2019ve met up with a lot of individuals coming from different strata of the society saying I\u2019ll have more money to send my son to this particular college. My daughter is already doing engineering. I\u2019ll be able to fund her for her higher studies, and things like that. And from ordinary citizens who are leading their lives either working in a small store or driving a car, taxi, and so on. So it has an immediate psychological effect that I can do this, which was beyond my affordability and therefore I think there will be a buoyancy in terms of revenue.<\/span><\/p>\nAny impact on capital spending or fiscal deficit?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nI wouldn\u2019t think. At this moment, I can say with confidence, capital expenditure of the government will not come down. It will be completed as stated in the budgetary planning time, the budget estimate time, and so with the fiscal deficit. And this is the last point of my gliding path. I will adhere to it.<\/span><\/p>\nWill petroleum products and alcohol continue to be outside the ambit of GST?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nYes, the current proposal doesn\u2019t include it. The states will have to\u2026<\/span><\/p>\nAnd you don\u2019t see that happening in the near future.<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nNot in the immediate future.<\/span><\/p>\nLet\u2019s move to a few broader economic questions as well. With GST rationalisation, inflation is likely to come down quite naturally. Does it make a case for further repo rate cuts in the future? I know it\u2019s not your\u2026but you know, generally directionally speaking.<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nIt\u2019s not my domain. We will have to see how the RBI assesses for itself.<\/span><\/p>\nSeptember 22nd is a tight deadline. Are you confident you will be able to roll out this? Is the back end ready?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nYes, the back end was mentally prepared, and many structural things have already started getting corrected, reset and so on. It is with the agreement of these GST and related technology-managing team-related issues that we have had a discussion with them, and they have clearly given me the confidence that, yes, they will be rolling it out on September 22.<\/span><\/p>\nSo, Rahul Gandhi, who earlier called it \u201cGabbar Singh Tax”, has now been talking about \u201cOne Nation, One Tax”. On the other hand, former finance minister P Chidambaram said that it (GST reform) is 8 years too late. How do you react to all of this?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nWell, being in the opposition, I think they have to say something when the popular response has been so overwhelming for the opposition to try to take some credit out of it, but yet with a hesitation that the credit should not be completely given to the government is quite understandable. But I would want them to ponder that neither could they bring it in because they couldn\u2019t win the confidence of the states, nor could they truly and literally understand how the mechanism works. After all, the GST Council has members from the Congress party, and finance ministers from Congress-ruled states are there. But I have a feeling the Congress high command, as they call it, doesn\u2019t do its homework to understand the way in which this wonderful organisation works, the GST Council. And, therefore, at one point in time, they call it \u201cGabbar Singh Tax”, another point in time, saying, \u201cOh, this is fine, but it should have come earlier.” <\/span>These are clearly statements coming from people who have not really spent time to understand how post-Independence, one institution, which has been created as a constitutional body\u2026If I\u2019m right, this is the only institution that has been created post-independence\u2026Spent eight years, but has delivered so much in terms of revenue, in terms of uniting this country, in terms of making ease of doing business a reality and is now coming up quickly in succession within eight years for the second generation reforms. To understand it and then to comment would help the government, not stray comments which doesn\u2019t get into the details.<\/span><\/p>\nThis has been widely hailed as one of the dramatic reforms of this government. Obviously, a dil mange more, so what next? You know the PM has set up two official-level committees on next-gen reforms. Two groups of ministers have also been formed, headed by Amit Shah and Rajnath ji. What can we expect in the coming months? What is the idea going forward? How do you look at reforms in the bigger picture?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nQuite a lot of work was done about the next set of reforms, which we need to undertake even prior to the 2024 Lok Sabha elections. Then some departments, like ours, moved faster. There are other departments which are moving faster as well, whether it is looking at environment-related issues, sustainability-related issues, opening up for private sector, sectors which have been the domain and the privy of the government. These are the things where lots of action is happening. Various departments are moving. Science and technology is moving very fast, IT is moving very fast. IT as in semiconductors and other things. So that big area of reform, if you ask me, which these two committees will look at. And also the committee, which is headed by former cabinet secretary Rajeev Gauba. I expect reforms which will have to now trickle down rather than remaining as a domain of only the union government. The state governments are somewhat <\/span>also moving towards reforming on many scales. But the third layer of India\u2019s democracy, the urban local bodies and the panchayats, is where the next forceful action has to move. Otherwise, the speed with which we want to move India and the aspirations to be met in India, for people to live in a society, live in a country which is fairly developed, and our citizens get their aspirations met. I think we have to take the reform agenda just not to the states, but also to the third layer.<\/span><\/p>\nAs I move to discussing the GDP numbers for quarter one, just before that, another last question on GST, which is, how will you ensure that you pass on the benefit to the consumers? We\u2019ve seen anti-profiteering in the past. So how do you plan to tackle this? Is there a way in which the government is looking at it? How do you ensure?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nAt the moment, there isn\u2019t any particular mechanism that I can say I have, but I certainly I am seized of the question. Also coming from many citizens themselves, who are saying it is great that you\u2019ve done this, it is great that you\u2019re bringing in this kind of a drastic cut in taxes, but how will you ensure that we will benefit from it, and how will you ensure that it is not going to disappear on the course to reach. We will have to keep talking with the industry. We will have to nudge them. We\u2019ll have to\u2026I\u2019m glad, in the case of the insurance sector, public sector insurance companies have come forward to openly say that they will indeed pass the rate cuts to the citizens, those who are taking the insurance for themselves. So I\u2019m sure the private sector would also do it in the insurance, and so with other things.<\/span><\/p>\nThey are expecting them to announce that they will pass on the benefits\u2026<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nMany of them are doing\u2026<\/span><\/p>\nA couple of them have announced. So Q1 GDP numbers are heartening, at 7.8%, at a time when President Trump said that India is a dead economy. How do you react to something like that? <\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nI may not be able to comment on, let\u2019s say a foreign head of state commenting on it. But one line which I keep repeating several times, probably even when I met you once earlier when we chatted like this, it is the cynics within India who worry me. It is the naysayers within India who worry me. Assume somebody had said it, a head of state has said it. We are building India together, and all of us together, are we going to carry those tales or stories, or observations which somebody else says, and then repeat them here? \u201cOh, you know, so and so has said this. India is a dead economy. We knew it. This is happening. That\u2019s happening.” India requires its citizens to be respected. They are toiling and struggling and working to build their families and their economies, their own personal family wealth and whatever. At this time, when we are trying to create more opportunities, do we need the naysayers to even borrow such observations? <\/span>Be it as it may that it is coming from a head of state, do we need our own people to use these expressions? It is undermining not the government; you\u2019re undermining our citizens\u2019 efforts. A responsible opposition, I wished, didn\u2019t repeat these lines. I would react only to what our people are saying rather than a head of state elsewhere.<\/span><\/p>\nFive-quarter high number, I think it gives us a lot of confidence in the economy\u2026<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nAnd also inflation coming down. <\/span><\/p>\nYes.<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nDrastically coming down.<\/span><\/p>\nBut it brings us to a related point, which is on the point of tariffs. Now that tariffs with the US are at 50%, what is the likely impact on the GDP going forward? There are various estimates by various consultancies, from 10 basis points all the way to 100 basis points some have predicted. Where do you see the impact really of this?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nBut with the reform like this, many of that should be offset. <\/span><\/p>\nYes.<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nSo it\u2019s never a situation of one fixated point. It\u2019s a dynamic situation where you\u2019re moving from one to another with newer players coming in, newer factors coming into play in this scheme of things. This one you have the GST reforms which is going to make people understand that they can fetch more things with the same amount of money with which they bought some amount earlier. So it is very clear that industries have been speaking about the tariff and its impact. The government has designed something for itself. We will come out with something to handhold those who are hit by the 50% tariff from the US. This has been said earlier. I have met up with the delegations when I went to Chennai in the recent past few days. I have said this there and I will repeat it. Government is working.<\/span><\/p>\nSo will they be allowed to sell in India, or how do you plan to alleviate their concerns?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nNo, there is a package which consists of very many different ways in which we want to help them. So we will wait for the cabinet to clear it. But there is something coming to help them, so that this tirade of the tariff is something which they can face and also suddenly having to look for newer markets is also a challenge, but we\u2019ll have to help them out on that.<\/span><\/p>\nSo is there a sense in the government that this could be a slightly longer haul?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nWe hope not but we really can\u2019t leave our exporters high and dry, saying its going to change sooner. We will work with them.<\/span><\/p>\nNirmala ji, will we also continue to buy Russian oil?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nYes, that\u2019s been made very plain and simple. Whether it is Russian oil or anything else, it\u2019s our decision to buy from the place which suits our needs, whether in terms of rates, logistics, anything. So, where we buy our oil from, especially being a big-ticket foreign exchange-related item where we pay so much out of\u2026our highest in terms of import, we will have to take a call which suits us best. So we will undoubtedly be buying.<\/span><\/p>\nAnother question is about the officials of the Trump administration who have been using really hurtful language against India, saying that we are Brahmins for profiteering at the expense of ordinary Indians or calling the Ukraine-Russia war, Modi\u2019s war, or us as the Kremlin\u2019s laundromat. How do you see all this? How do you react to something like this?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nVery much the same principle, as I said earlier. It is one thing\u2026it can be hurtful\u2026It is one thing for a foreign government, head of state or an official or anybody to say all that. And the global diplomatic world is astonished that that kind of expression is being used against India, and that will have people in the diplomatic arena to respond or to deal with. But what hurts me more is when those very expressions are being justified in India. \u201cOh don\u2019t you know, don\u2019t you? I mean you, you know, dirty, unwashed Indians, you don\u2019t understand what this expression means. This is how you know this is explained.” Who wants these explanations from Indians? Who actually wants us to know better? And who are these people explaining to us, \u201cThis expression is used in this context.” I am outraged by that. I don\u2019t want explanations to justify that. Whether I am going to have to deal with them, stand up and challenge them, or retort is a different story. <\/span>But Indians quoting those words and telling us, \u201cOh, you dirty Indians, you don\u2019t know this colonial justification of the language”, that is being used against Indians, against such countries which have come out of its colony and from its empire and stood up to build its own country with its own self-confidence. And even now, when we are talking about <\/span>atmanirbhar<\/span> (self-reliant), it\u2019s not just in terms of producing everything in your country, it is also about self-respect. As much as you want everything produced in India for <\/span>atmanirbharta<\/span> (self-reliance), you should also have self-respect. If somebody is saying, all of us in one voice to respond to it, rather than have a few of us justify it by saying, \u201cDon\u2019t you all understand it?” Are you a part of the imperialists? I am outraged more by that.<\/span><\/p>\nYeah, the opposition picking up this and making it their own narrative. Like \u201cdead economy” was picked up by Congress and Rahul Gandhi.<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nAnd even for this, \u201cBrahmins are the ones who are benefiting out of it”\u2026<\/span><\/p>\nYes, Boston Brahmins.<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nYes, Boston Brahmins. \u201cOh, you Indians, you don\u2019t understand this, Russian oil purchase is to help Brahmins to benefit of it. And you who are being fooled.” Exactly the same divide-and-rule principle that the British used here, which the imperialists used here. And even today, you have the friends of the imperialists telling us, \u201cNo, no, no. You know the expression Boston Brahmin is this and not that.” Who damn cares? I\u2019m sorry, who damn cares? I want Indians to think for ourselves. I want those Indians who are now defending that language to get up and say, \u201cWe are free from you all now for over 75-80 years. We will mind our business, we will take care of ourselves. Refrain from using these words”, should have been that voice. That not being the voice, and then to teach us the meaning of this expression\u2026outrageous.<\/span><\/p>\nToday, we\u2019ve got to know Nirmala Sitharaman ko gussa kyun aata hai (why Nirmala Sitharaman gets angry). Moving on to the economy, any plans to liberalise FDI or FPI regulations further?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nI do not want to give a headline, but certainly, we are looking at every aspect of reform.<\/span><\/p>\nThis is probably the right time to assure foreign investors to invest in India. What are some of the steps that we should take that would give them this confidence? This one was a big one in itself, but going forward.<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nFirst thing, I think our institutions, such as Parliament should debate issues, should question government on the proposals, on the policies, on government\u2019s actions. That gives confidence to people, saying India\u2019s democracy actually literally discusses these issues. Without that, the government can go about doing what is right for the public, but the institution of Parliament is not being used for its prime purpose. <\/span><\/p>\nWhy is it important? It gives a feeling that both the opposition and the ruling parties are talking on issues instead of holding placards and standing in the House. If there is a meaningful discussion, it will convey a lot about the policy strength. That is one thing.<\/span><\/p>\nSecond are regulatory institutions, and I\u2019ve said this before, but I will repeat it here, regulatory institutions should not go to the extent of micromanaging. I want businesses to do their businesses. They have powerful boards which run them, and the regulator, in consultation with the stakeholders, should allow them to function. Of course, keep a watch and do a soft-touch regulation. If regulators acorss the board, I am not talking just of the finance domain, regulators all over should have an open-minded approach, a soft-touch approach above all, not micromanage business.<\/span><\/p>\nPrivate investment has been a topic of discussion. How do we revive animal spirits for the private sector to invest? This has been a discussion that we\u2019ve been having over the course of many interviews. And you\u2019ve also been exhorting the private sector. How do we go about it?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nI think to be fair to them, they are moving in and they are taking decisions about how they want to expand\u2026I see a significant change and I see that enthusiasm now in wanting to understand how things will move from the industry. And I\u2019m sure they are conscious that opportunities lie in India and they should do things.<\/span><\/p>\nHow would you react to India\u2019s sovereign rating by S&P, which has gone up? High time would you say?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nYes, and it is I think as a result of a lot of work done by the Department of Economic Affairs, the Chief Economic Advisor. They have been persistent in talking with them, giving them adequate data-based information, and their conversations have actually today shown us the result. And I\u2019m glad that they\u2019re doing it. They should continue doing it with other agencies also because with our growth being what it is, with the fiscal macroeconomic fundamentals being what they are, with the inflation being under control, with our foreign exchange growing, with our stock market being so buoyant, it is difficult to understand how parameters of similar and comparable nature elsewhere attract a much better rating whereas ours don\u2019t. And conversely, parameters which are worse than ours seem to be having a better rating. Just can\u2019t explain it. So I think the work of the DEA and the CEA is well cut out in this regard. They will have to work with agencies.<\/span><\/p>\nYou\u2019re right about all the macro indicators looking up. But revenue growth for corporate India has remained tepid. It\u2019s at a seven-quarter low of 3.7%. How do you explain that? GDP growing at 7.8%. What really accounts for this?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nI think it\u2019s also a question of how they\u2019re deploying their resources and how they\u2019re earning out of it. Businesses will also have to look at the way in which their risk-taking capacities can increase, and that\u2019s what is going to be the prime mover in terms of revenues for businesses. But that\u2019s a business call, it\u2019s not for me to say, right?<\/span><\/p>\nNirmala ji, India and China are now mending sort of fences. Right now, it is at the level of resuming the flights and giving visas to each other. But what could be the next steps? How could we make the Chinese markets more accessible to Indian companies? There is, of course, a huge deficit of $100 billion here. So how do we do that? What are the next steps?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nThere\u2019s just a lot of work to be done in that area. There\u2019s no hiding it. We need to have trade conversations, market access conversations, non-tariff barrier conversations with the Chinese. Unless we do that, and unless there is a true engagement and not a procrastinating engagement, you may talk as much as you want on these issues. I\u2019ve done it myself, and to have a conclusion arrived at takes a lot of time with the Chinese. Market access is something which has not been realised despite our almost decade-long engagement with the Chinese. In between everything had come to a halt. But on both these issues, there should be meaningful conversations. Otherwise, the very products that we want to export to China go through different destinations to China. But why can\u2019t it go directly? <\/span><\/p>\nAnd will it also be reciprocal? I mean, Press Note 3 prevents investments from China to India. So would you look at, you know, doing something about that as well?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nAs it is, I think in one or two cases, particular cases, we have relaxed some of them. And in those sectors where their technology has come in, and the technicians and also the experts had to come to actually see the projects through, we had not allowed these experts to come. That has now changed. In some sectors, people are coming in, the projects are already on the ground.<\/span><\/p>\nSo India will be open to that idea?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nOf course.<\/span><\/p>\nNirmala ji, you\u2019ve ushered in the boldest reforms. I say this in every interview that we do because you do corporate tax cut, that was a phenomenal sort of move. Then after that last budget, we have income tax rates going down. Now GST 2. So one thing that we probably haven\u2019t seen enough is on private disinvestment. What would you say to that? You did sell Air India, but after that, things have been slow.<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nYou will see action in that also.<\/span><\/p>\nThis year?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nYes.<\/span><\/p>\nOh, that\u2019s great news. Any deadline for strategic stake sale in IDBI Bank?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nI think the DIPAM secretary has already spoken about it. IDBI is moving quite fast, and I expect it to be concluded this financial year. <\/span><\/p>\nAnd any more banks which could then be looked at after this?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nI wouldn\u2019t say any more banks. I\u2019m not negating anything. But yes, more disinvestments.<\/span><\/p>\nMore disinvestments\u2026 So we\u2019ve seen that since June this year, the yield on 10-year bonds has risen 30 basis points, to more than 6.5%. Are you concerned about rising borrowing costs?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\nYes. I wouldn\u2019t say I\u2019m concerned, but I\u2019m observing it. It is not affordable. And also, at a time when interest rates are otherwise low, bond deals becoming unsustainably high has a big bearing on the government, not just union government, states are also up against odds in getting affordable\u2026 <\/span><\/p>\nAlso, your fiscal math.<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n